Do the Kind thing Archives

This is part 2 of my interview with Daniel Lubetzky, founder and CEO of KIND Snacks and author of Do the KIND Thing, a book I’d recommend to anyone, especially those intrigued by the notion of doing well in business while doing good. In this post, we dive deeply into the evolution of KIND’s loyalty building activities. Several items of importance will become clear as you read this:

It’s easy to give product away–it’s far harder to create a memorable experience that drives loyalty;
Loyalty programs are tricky to get right even if you have a great product;
It’s hard to get consumers to go from an offline sampling experience to an online program;
There is such a thing as being too clever when it comes to designing loyalty programs;
Never underestimate the power of kindness!

Drew: In your book, you mention that sampling was an important way of building loyalty. How did you approach this?

So in New York City, for example, you have men or women handing out stuff for people to try. And it’s such an unemotional experience. It just feels like a commodity. I just feel that there’s a way to elevate that experience. We’re giving people something for free, an expensive, premium product that we worked so hard to craft. We don’t want to just hand it out and push it into people’s face. The opportunity to give a KIND bar as a kind act and say you’ve been “kinded” helps people hopefully appreciate it more.

Drew: So how do you sample KIND?

We do a program today, where we give people two KIND bars and say, “one is for you to do a kind thing for your body and one is to do a kind thing for someone else.” It helps elevate the experience and it’s just a little bit warmer of an interaction. It’s just a warmer way to connect with people. But, it’s still authentic, also in that we’re authentically trying to inspire people to start chains of kindness.

Drew: You’ve tried a number of loyalty programs. Can you talk about the black card and why you don’t think it worked?

The original aspiration was that people got the mysterious black card that would not explain to them anything other than somebody would do a kind act to them and they would get this black card and then that person would disappear. And we hoped that people would be so curious that they would go online and find out that they’ve been KINDED and that now it’s their responsibility to pass that on. The truth is, people are so busy and so skeptical of strangers approaching them that when we just handed them the secret card a lot of people thought, “what is this?” They were just too busy and they just wouldn’t engage at a significant enough pace. It’s hard to get people to go from an offline encounter with a stranger to online so it didn’t work as well as I would have liked.

Drew: Then you moved on to another loyalty program which encouraged people to do everyday acts of kindness but that one didn’t work out quite as planned either, right?

Yes, it was a bit disappointing. Instead of elevating the standard for what kindness should be, they were lowering it, and in that sense I felt a little bit guilty that I was contributing to making what should be a magical moment a little dirty. A lot of young people would enter the acts like, “I opened the door for my sister or I closed the door for my sister!” These obviously didn’t capture the essence of what we wanted to do. But many others supported the causes that they cared about, and the causes were doing something important. One of them was helping reunite war veterans with their families so we sent them care packages. The good news was everybody was doing something good for others. None of them were doing something horrible.

Drew: So why do you think this one didn’t quite work as planned?

It’s our fault that the system didn’t work. And in retrospect we gave up on it too quickly because at that point we didn’t use Facebook for authentication. So anybody could just say whatever they wanted. There are a lot of lessons from that experience and we’re still learning. It’s always a give and take. It’s quality versus quantity. The higher the standard, the higher the quality of the kind act, the more meaningful it will be. But you’re going to have to sacrifice quantity. So you have to find the right ratios.

Drew: How are the #KindAwesome cards working?

At the quality level, I think they’re awesome. I think at least when I give them out. I always give them in moments where they’re deserved. I don’t just give them out to give them out. I usually give one a day, I sometimes give a few a day. But if a day goes by where nobody deserves one, then I don’t feel compelled to just give one out. I wait for a person that really has done a kind act. And I give it to them and it’s authentic and people feel good. It’s very nice. But currently, they are limited by the fact that only a small community (the KIND team and some of our partners) gives them out. So there’s you know, five hundred of us. We are in the process of researching and designing a platform that’s going to help us scale that. And hopefully maintain the authenticity.

Drew: Have there been any surprises with the #KINDawesome program?

I did not expect that people were going to cry when I gave them #KINDawesome cards. I actually can think of three moments where people shed tears from feeling really touched that I recognized their act of kindness. And they couldn’t care less about getting a couple KIND bars and a #KINDawesome card to pass on to others. What drives their fulfillment is that appreciation – that someone else had recognized and celebrated their kindness. Particularly when they were having a hard time and a long day, and they were not feeling appreciated.

Drew: Talk a bit about the power of kindness.

You know, all of us are complex human beings. People sometimes have a harder life than we acknowledge and realize. And they’re having really tough moments. And somebody, a fellow human being just stretches out their hand and it really can mean a lot. There are some people that are fragile and feeling completely isolated and then a stranger just shows some warmth and kindness to them. And it completely transforms their lives. And they have a reason to believe that life is worth living. Just imagine how powerful that is. I would not pretend to say that from getting a #KINDawesome card that has happened, I’m just saying the power of kindness really can help do so much good.

Drew: So, a little kindness can go a long way.

Yes.

Once a decade or so, I fall in love with a book by a business founder. In the 90’s it was Herb Kelleher’s Nuts, the inspiring story from the founder of Southwest Airlines. In the aughts it was S. Truett Cathy’s Eat More Chikin Inspire More People, a remarkable rundown on the rise of Chick-fil-a. [Though I don’t share Cathy’s politics, I couldn’t help but respect his accomplishments.] So here we are in the twenty-tens and boom, the recently released Do the Kind Thing by Daniel Lubetzky rocks my world! Admittedly, I’m a sucker for stories about brands that do well by doing good BUT take my word for it, this is a book for marketers big and small, entrepreneurs and corporate chiefs.

I read the book after seeing Lubetzky speak at the recent PSFK conference and more importantly to this post, after he agreed to be interviewed. Our subsequent conversation covered the gamut, from book writing to purpose branding, sampling programs to child rearing. And every minute was delightfully instructive. One of the things that I really appreciated about the book was how honest he was about his mistakes along the way and he was equally frank in our conversation. The passages below focus on why he wrote the book and his conception of purpose-driven branding.

Purpose-driven branding, for the uninitiated, is the notion that companies and brands need a reason for being such that everyone at the organization can answer the question “why are we here?” Gordon Methune, former CEO of Continental, credits the turnaround at that airline in the late ’90’s by getting everyone in the organization behind a clearly defined purpose, “on time with bags.” As you will see in our discussion below, KIND’s Lubetzky set the bar for his organization quite a bit higher, aiming to turn kindness into a movement, one KIND bar and one KIND act at a time.

Drew: You’re a busy guy to say the least. What really compelled you to write the book?

A few things… One is that I have been the recipient of a ton of guidance and advice from people over the years. And I felt I needed to do the same things for others. The book also shares very honestly a lot of my mistakes – hopefully this will help others avoid making the same ones.

The second one was I very sincerely aspire for KIND to do something very different from what other companies have done–to really push the frontiers, to transform the company into a movement and a state of mind, a community that people connect to. And by no means do I think we are there. But to get closer to this aspiration, we have to share our vision with others and stake a claim to what we are and what we’re living to accomplish, to get a community to help us build the movement and take ownership over it. Writing a book was the first step in sharing more of our philosophy, a little bit of where we’re coming from and what we’re aiming to do so that people can hopefully join us in pursuing our vision.

Drew: Any other reasons?

I also wanted to write a book because frankly I’m very aware of my own mortality because my father was a holocaust survivor and I just think about those issues perhaps more often than others. And I have 4 children and I just wanted to document my values and my way of life for them. And I also wanted to share these ideas with the KIND team, which is especially important as we grow, so there was a lot of motivation.

Drew: Speaking as an entrepreneur that has made more than his fair share of mistakes, I love how honest you are about yours.

It shows a certain sincerity and ability to look at yourself with a degree of circumspection. It also makes your success that much more impressive.

Drew: You spend a fair of time in the book talking about “purpose.” Do you think every company needs a purpose, and does that purpose necessarily need to be tied to social good?

I think every company that is trying to succeed has to have a purpose because it’s another way of saying that it has some sort of reason to succeed, it has something to offer consumers or society that serves a greater purpose. As far as a social purpose, I don’t think every company has to have it. I think companies that have it feel fulfilled and motivated. But it can be dangerous to inauthentically incorporate a social purpose. It’s not the same if the people that are driving the business don’t wake up in the morning and feel the purpose is important to them. Consumers will be able to tell if it’s not authentic and it will probably backfire.

Drew: Does having a purpose help you as the leader?

I personally derive more meaning from having more than a financial purpose and doing our small part to make this world a little bit better. And I do think that there is a trend for society to appreciate the power of businesses incorporating social purpose into their mission when it’s sincere. But I don’t think it’s a requirement and I think it’s very dangerous to force it into something where it doesn’t fit.

Drew: How else does having a purpose help?

I also think the exercise of talking to people about their core principles and asking what’s important to them can help them pursue a bigger vision. But it has to really, really connect with their efforts, with their spirit, with their DNA, with who they are, with what they stand for and frankly with the brand heritage.

Drew: What about brands that don’t have a social purpose?

I think there are incredible brands like Snickers whose purpose might just be to satisfy a hungry craving. And they don’t need to pretend to be something that they’re not –they play a role as a fun and delicious experience and a satisfying candy bar. I think there are many other great brands that do what they promise to do and are very successful without a social purpose.

Stay tuned for more of this interview in subsequent posts.

Tag: Do the Kind thing

CMO Insights: Building Loyalty Through Sampling