CMO Archives - Page 18 of 25

How 100-Year Old Brands Stay Relevant

Posted on December 28, 2015 by Drew Neisser

Last Saturday I had the pleasure of witnessing Duke’s first bowl victory in 54 years. By all measures it was a momentous occasion as two basketball powerhouses battled it out on a gridiron carved out of the baseball diamond that is Yankee Stadium! Indiana University, whose founding dates back to 1820, has a long track record of success both on and off the field and its fans, turned out in red & white droves to cheer on their Hoosiers. Duke University, which traces its roots back to 1838 though it didn’t actually get its current brand name until 1924, also attracted several thousand delirious Blue Devils who were thrilled to learn about an obscure rule in college football — field goal attempts that rise above the goal posts can’t be reviewed after being called fair or foul. It was upon this rule that Duke’s victory was sealed and history rewritten.

So why perchance am I sharing this scintillating bit of trivia in what is perhaps my last blog post of the year? Of course, there’s the reveling part but fortunately for you there’s more to it than that. As I mentioned both of these institutions are household names, have weathered the test of time and occasionally risen to the top of their competitive set–JUST LIKE KEDS. (Bet you didn’t see that one coming!) Turning 100 in 2016, Keds is indeed a well-known brand that has played the fashion game effectively, getting hot at times without the usual melting away. No doubt many have contributed to this success over the years, yet like new players on a college team, big gains often come with the new arrivals, a pattern I expect to see repeated with the arrival of Emily Culp, who was kind enough to spend time with me just before receiving The CMO Club’s Rising Star award. This is part two of our winning interview (read part 1 here). In it we cover the gamut from social listening to emerging channels like Snapchat, a marketer’s need for passion and the challenges of global initiatives. I certainly got a big kick out of talking to Emily and I’m sure you will too.

Drew: I was at a customer service conference recently and one of the things that really struck me was how social listening and social customer service has advanced in the last couple of years to the point that not only are these people listening, obviously for the product issues but they’re also preemptively recommending changes to products based on things they hear. In some cases they even have a seat at the table for new product development because they’re so close to the customer. I’m just curious if social listening has played a part at all in your program or what role it does play?

It absolutely does. We listen to our consumers, engage them & make real-time changes to programs and products. We strongly believe our customers have the most important insights, hence we invite them to participate in Beta releases of new services and seed products early on to get feedback.

Because we have these amazing customers who love us and who are vocal when things go well and equally vocal when they don’t go well it is important to provide them with the level of engagement they desire with our brand. So this could take the form of providing feedback on advertising, testing to price elasticity, to literally just saying, “we’re between these two product names, which one do you like more?” And that way you create a loyalty, a genuine loyalty because you invite your customers into the process and you’re listening to them and asked upon their feedback.

Drew: It sounds like that could also be beginning of an influence service/advocacy program was well?

Yes, you’re right, there is nothing in exchange for it. Meaning, it’s just genuine love. I do this myself for three or four other brands that I’m ridiculously passionate about. I want to give feedback because I love to create products that I need or that would be slightly modified to my taste. In turn, if a company listens or engages me, then I will be a vocal advocate for them forever. I have told one story about Patagonia (100s of times) and their customer service simply because I love the brand and how they treated me.

Drew: You mentioned Snapchat. Every brand wants to figure out how to use it, but a lot have struggled. What’s working for you?

I fundamentally believe in Snapchat. So when I joined within the first 30 days, we officially launched our presence on the platform. For us right now, we are in the test and learn phase. Hence, I don’t think there is any secret sauce to share unfortunately, but we will learn quickly because it is where most of our 18 or 28-year-old woman are spending their time. Snapchat has became her favored platform along with Instagram and she has left Facebook for other uses, so that’s why it’s really, really important to me that we fully embrace this and drive forward with it but we’re still learning.

Drew: When you talked about your passion for other brands and how you get actively involved, how much does that impact how you attack your marketing and your approach to marketing at Keds?

I have loved Keds for decades. So when the opportunity arose to join the team it combined all the key elements that are important to me: a brand with rich heritage, a brand I personally love to wear, a brand that stands for female empowerment & a brand with an amazing senior leadership team. So a large aspect of my job is to tap into other people who feel that way about our brand and how do I give them a megaphone or at least an opportunity to share their feedback with us. Because somebody who’s worn Keds, even if they just switched from another product to ours or just rediscovered them, I love to hear from them. And my job as a marketer is to make sure that I do hear from them and I provide them platforms to share with us whether it’s on social, it’s in e-mail, you know, comment cards in store.

Drew: Lets talk about the challenge of global branding — the desire to be consistent on a global level yet still somehow localize as necessary has to be difficult.

It’s one of the most intriguing Rubik’s cubes you can work on. There is no question about it. As a marketer I think it’s very humbling and important to understand, you can have the perfect strategy, the perfect brand campaign, the perfect messaging and then you need to enter what I affectionately call the double helix matrix which is the global domain. And what I mean by that is all of these things that you’ve been very methodical and strategic about sometimes go out the window because I was not born and raised in X country and I didn’t understand the cultural nuance of a color, symbol or styling choice. So what may resonate visually or from a techy perspective in one market isn’t going to work than another but what’s amazing about this is your global partners who are in different regions teach you about what these things mean and help you think about the brand in a different way and help you think about how do you adapt to their market to have the same kind of same DNA and messaging but in a way that’s culturally relevant to them. So I actually really love it. For me a big reason is I am extremely curious, so global brands and messaging has always kept me on my toes.

CMO Insights: Forget Mentors, Get Sponsors

Posted on December 14, 2015 by Drew Neisser

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Admittedly, I’m a big fan of making New Year’s resolutions and an even bigger fan of following through on them. Writing a book had been on my list for several years and finally, 2015 was the year I checked that one off. Yeah for me! As for you, especially those of you who are not at the latter stages of your careers, here’s a big item to add to your 2016 list and perhaps one to scratch off it — win over a sponsor and forget about finding a mentor.

What? Forget about finding a mentor? You thought mentors were the ticket to success, right? Well, I have news for you or more accurately put, Sydney Seiger, the CMO of TXU Energy, has a big idea for you — get a sponsor at your current job who can and will support your career development. As Seiger notes in our interview below, “Sponsors are advocates and the relationship feels like more of a two-way street.” And just in case it isn’t obvious, sponsors are earned not wished for. Sponsors are generally the result of working for an incredibly demanding boss, seeking criticism, responding to it and then exceeding his or her expectations.

For more startling insights from the winner of Rising Star Award by The CMO Club read on:

Drew: Can you talk about one of your marketing initiatives in 2015 that you are proudest of?

I’m most proud of the new perspective I’ve brought to my new role and to the entire TXU Energy enterprise – not just the marketing department. Specifically, this year, I’ve championed the importance of the customer experience in everything we do – from the way we create products and offers, to the way we communicate with and service our customers and prospects. By creating and introducing ‘The X Factor’ to the organization, I’ve repositioned the X in our brand name (quite literally the center of our brand) to represent the customer eXperience that everyone – from the front office to the back office – plays a critical role in shaping. By organizing our efforts and communications around persona segments, implementing shared customer-based outcome metrics with our internal and agency partners, and starting and ending with the customer experience, we have fundamentally changed the way we approach our business and our customers and our prospects. The results? We are having a record breaking year – the strongest company and marketing performance in nearly a decade.

Drew: You’ve achieved quite a bit in a short period of time. To what do you attribute your success thus far?

Hard work, a background in advanced analytics, an inquisitive approach, an ability to find actionable insights in data, and building a strong network of internal and professional relationships.

Drew: If you were addressing a bevy of marketers at the beginning of their careers, what advice would you give them to help them reach the CMO position?

Be positive – and active – about learning, growth, and change. Read more. Ask for complex job assignments. Go beyond your original area of expertise. Understand business drivers and implications. Look outside of your industry for ideas and inspiration.

Drew: Do you have a mentor or is there a person in your career that has been particularly helpful? How important is having a mentor?

I have had several ‘informal’ mentors – several that didn’t realize they were at the time! I’ve also been fortunate to have had sponsors in my career; I’ve found that sponsors are more impactful than mentors. Formal ‘mentors’ feel a little forced and one-sided to me. Sponsors are advocates and the relationship feels like more of a two-way street. A former boss and (now retired) CMO, Dan Valentine, comes to mind as a sponsor. Dan was almost impossible to please, offered me stretch assignments that took me out of my comfort zone, and provided me with his broad perspective and critical feedback. I worked my hardest to make him look good, and in turn, he championed my career. Julie Cary, another former boss and CMO at La Quinta, is another sponsor that comes to mind. She is whip smart, articulate, insightful, full of energy, and most importantly, she always made me feel that she cared about me personally and professionally. While I worked for her only a short time, I frequently find myself asking: “What would Julie do?” I strive to make my team feel the way she made me feel whenever I had an interaction with her.

Drew: Looking ahead to 2016, what is the single biggest challenge that you’d like to overcome?

Continuing to stay ahead of the competition and relevant to the customer in a category that is incredibly competitive (60+ active competitors with over 300 offers in the market at any given time).

CMO Insights: How to Market a Baseball Experience

Posted on December 7, 2015 by Drew Neisser

Marketing a sports team is a rather tricky affair. Any given day the on-field performance can vary wildly. This is especially true in baseball. Even the best of the best win 60% of their games which in the course of 162 game season means 60 or so losses, 30 of which happened with home field advantage. A favorite player can have a bad night which is often the case for hitters in a sport where going 1 for 3 all season is considered greatness! Compare this to the consistent experience consumers have with a typical packaged goods product and you’ll begin to have some sympathy for the sports marketer.

All that said, you won’t hear Dan Farrell, Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing for the St. Louis Cardinals complaining. First, he knows he’s riding, as they say, a great horse. The Cardinals are arguably the winningest team in baseball this century with 11 playoff appearances, 4 National League pennants and 2 World Series rings. And second, he’s built his marketing around the entire customer experience at Busch Stadium rather than just the players on the field. In doing so, Dan has helped the Cardinals become the 2nd most attended home team in baseball in the last three years (behind the LA Dodgers) attracting over 3.5 millions fans the last two seasons. For these efforts, Dan also won the Customer Experience Award from The CMO Club and a chance to be interviewed by yours truly! Batter up…

Drew: Congrats on winning the Customer Experience Award. Can you share the kinds of things you did to impact the overall customer experience in 2015?

The Cardinals operate Busch Stadium based on the premise that attending a baseball game in our ballpark ranks as one of the premier attractions and serves as a genuine destination for millions of fans throughout the Midwest. Our franchise draws from a very broad region, and while we recognize the value and importance of our local fans who average somewhere in the range of attending 8-10 games per year, we also draw nearly 1 million fans from outside the St Louis metro area. Accordingly, we approach each game with the understanding that we will have fans who will be attending their first game at Busch Stadium, so we strive to consistently provide the highest quality guest experience possible.

The basics in our guest experience model are probably no different than most other entertainment venues: cleanliness, food and beverage quality and service, safe and secure atmosphere, helpful and out-going usher staff, entertaining scoreboard and fan engagement initiatives for pre-game and between innings, efficient ease of access, etc. If we have a specialty, I believe it comes from a dedicated and very tenured staff that strive for superior customer service with a keen attention to detail.

Drew: How do you measure your customer experience? How do you know if Cardinal fans are having a great experience?

We conduct regular in-park surveys seeking fan feedback on a variety of topics, including guest satisfaction and ranking of our various service sectors. We monitor and track the data on a year to year basis to check for consistency. We also hold regular pre-game forums with our season ticket holders and our group leaders and we invite feedback and share information with these core groups of fans who are very important stakeholders of our product.

Drew: A lot of studies suggest that only 1 in 10 unhappy customers will share their complaints with a brand. How do you process customer complaints and make sure that a systemic issue is not overlooked?

We have a very active guest services department who monitor online complaints and also we encourage our game day usher and support staff to submit complaints or offer suggestions for service improvements.

Drew: Obviously on-field performance of the team has a big impact on customer satisfaction and you’ve been blessed with a great team for several years now. What have been your top marketing priorities in the last few years and how have they evolved?

The Cardinals have made significant changes to our promotion programs over the past few seasons. We have increased the number of in-park promotional dates, increased the amount of money we invest in the promotional giveaway items, increased the quantity and quality of items we give away, and focused our advertising to highlight the promotions, more of a “retail” strategy vs a brand-oriented campaign.

Drew: What other company do you think is doing an amazing job with CX and why?

Kindle by Amazon; AT&T U-verse (surprising but I am impressed how they can trouble shoot a technical issue in your system from a remote customer service location), Bank of America.

Drew: Looking ahead to 2016, what is the single biggest challenge that you’d like to overcome?

Continue to learn how to monetize the digital and social media content that is so significant for a professional sports franchise.

CMO Insights: The Benefits of Networking

Posted on December 3, 2015 by Drew Neisser

There’s a reason that I devoted two chapters to networking and placed them in the elemental category “Inert Fundamentals” in my recently released book [which, hint hint, is being heralded as the perfect stocking stuffer for aspiring marketeers!] The reason — networking is fundamental to the success of many marketers in leadership positions. Networking is not just a source of future jobs (a good enough reason on its own) but it is also a source of gratification for the special CMOs that enjoy giving their time and energy to others. But don’t just take my word for it. Read my interview with Lisa Woodard, the CMO at Transamerica Brokerage. Lisa, as you will soon find out, is a giver, sharing her time with fellow CMOs and aspiring entrepreneurs in prison. It is little wonder why Lisa was a recent recipient of the President’s Circle Award from The CMO Club.

Drew: How important is having a strong peer network to doing your job well? Can you provide a specific example of some action you took as a result of your network?

On a scale of 1-10, I would say a strong peer network is at least a 9. With frequent transitions from company to company and vertical to vertical as the norm for most CMOs, just having experienced mentors to call is extremely valuable. Where I have learned the most is perhaps by hearing what others have tried that did not work – allowing me to avoid pitfalls early in my tenure with a given role. Specifically, I have been able to identify strong vendor relationships because of references given by my network that have provided value.

Drew: Have there been any unexpected benefits to your networking efforts?

The sharing of wisdom on “non-marketing” topics. Being a part of discussions both on the digital roundtable and at The CMO Club Summit on the topic of Work-Life Balance has been nurturing, affirming and also provided me with very practical tools to make sense of the almost constant craziness

Drew: Making time for networking is always a challenge. How much time do you invest in peer to peer exchanges and how do you rationalize this investment?

Probably 10% – and I have to be very adamant / defensive in carving out the time – there is always something that can come up back at the office. But I find the ROI to be quite high. My boss always asks, “ Was it worthy of your time?” the Answer with CMO club and networking is always a yes, as long as I set the boundaries. The no vendor selling aspect is truly helpful in that I am not spending the time wondering what the other person’s motives are. Lastly, once you rise to our level- keeping marketing skills fresh requires external input, it’s not solely being learned within the company. Networking gives me a chance to work on my business, not just in my business.

Drew: Effective networks are ones in which there is a lot of give and take and some would say, start with giving and the taking will follow. What’s your approach? How do you handle the takers?

My satisfaction comes even more from the giving than the taking. I just have to believe in the long term, those good reciprocal relationships will add value. That is why I work with the Prison Entrepreneurship Program. I get so much more than I give by sharing my experience and knowledge.

I have a great experience to share on this one: I interviewed a candidate for a marketing role that wasn’t quite a fit for the job, but I liked him and maintained contact with him. He had been a product marketing manager for a long time and had been laid off. With pre-digital skills , he actively transformed himself to learn all he could about social. He applied his social media knowledge and spoke at various groups of folks in transition, helping them optimize their Linked In profiles. In fact, he helped me fix mine when I was in transition. He was able to parlay that giving to others into paid consultancy and his own marketing business. I have even hired him and my clients love him. It was all about reinvention and paying it forward.

Drew: Looking ahead to 2016, what is the single biggest challenge that you’d like to overcome?

Our industry is in great need of re-invention in order to meet the needs of the consumer. I am excited to be part of significant industry change.

Happy Employees = Happy Customers

Posted on November 23, 2015 by Drew Neisser

Sometimes a single blog post can’t span the breadth of what I’ve learned from a particular CMO. This is definitely the case with Steven Handmaker, CMO at Assurance, winner of The CMO Club Leadership Award who also joined me for the opening panel at Incite’s Content Marketing Summit. While the interview below focuses on his approach to leadership, it doesn’t cover what I subsequently learned about his approach to content and the highly effective marketing campaign he helped initiate for Assurance. So allow me to address that first.

Knowing how hard it is to differentiate insurance companies and the products they sell, Assurance decided to focus attention on its “quirky culture” thus putting employees front and center. With its campaign, “Happy Employees = Happy Customers,” Assurance not only found a source of highly distinctive content but also they tapped into a wellspring of goodwill both internally and externally. Assurance does many professionally-focused things to engendered this goodwill (i.e. training seminars & a “university” ) along with many just plain fun things like an employee Olympics, a casino night and sending digital high fives to top performers. These activities have catapulted Assurance to be among the top 5 places to work in Chicago and just as importantly, helped Assurance outperform many of its rivals. And frankly, that’s what I call leadership.

Drew: How would you describe / or how have others described your leadership style?

In terms of leadership style, I’m always aiming for inspirational. I work hard to have those I lead understand our ultimate vision and allow them the freedom and flexibility to use their talents to help us get there. Beyond inspiration, I’m a big believer in consistently showing appreciation.

Drew: Do you have any role models that you’ve admired over the years and if so, what did you pick up from him/her?

Personally, I worship at the altar of Bruce Springsteen. I mean, he is the ultimate Boss.I never miss a concert. Seen him in multiple cities, seen him in multiple continents — I am one of those. I could write a book (and may one day) on why he’s a great leadership role model for business. But for the purpose of this interview, let’s just say he’s a master storyteller, first and foremost, with legendary desire to connect with his audience. Something to which all marketers should aspire.

Drew: Can you talk about some of the actions you took as a leader in the last couple of years that were particularly challenging?

I work for an insurance brokerage whose primary business is B2B. When it comes to marketing technology, our industry is woefully behind the times. I’ve installed a state-of-the-art Eloqua automation system and have established an engaged audience of prospects and clients, rich with data. The challenging part is partnering with our sales people who are already tops in our industry, and convincing them to incorporate this new technology in to their process for even greater results. I’d say this work in continually ongoing.

Drew: How important is your peer to peer network to your on-going success? What are the biggest benefits of having a peer network?

Peer-to-peer for me has been invaluable. I’ve learned (stolen) so much from marketing leaders, particularly in other industries, which I’ve been able to take back and apply in my own environment. As I’ve said, nearly every industry is further along than insurance brokers – so it’s not too difficult to identify some amazing things we should have probably been doing 4 years ago.

Drew: What’s the best advice you’ve been given to guide personal / career success?

Anybody can follow a job description, do exactly what is asked, and produce positive results. If you really want to get noticed, if you really want to get ahead in your career, you need to ask yourself what else could you be doing that isn’t in your job description. What else should you just do to help those around you and the company succeed. Do that, and success will follow. If you apply this ideology to your personal life as well, you can expect the same results.

Drew: Looking ahead to 2016, what is the single biggest challenge that you’d like to overcome?

My own marketing team is growing and I’ve got some amazing talent I’d love to spend more time working closely with and nurturing. However, time management is something that ebbs and flows for me. Lately I’ve been ebbing and I’ve got to get my flow back!

CMO Insights: How to Handle the 1st 100 Days

Posted on November 20, 2015 by Drew Neisser

Passion will take you far in just about any job in any industry. In marketing, passion for the customer, the product and your company will take you very far indeed. You may recall my interview with John Yembrick, the head of social media for NASA and how his passion has yielded astronomical success for that organization’s social program. In my book, The CMO’s Periodic Table, Sharing Passion is in the elemental category Inert Fundamentals along with elements like Showing Courage and Always Innovating. Also in that category is Listening, which brings me to the subject at hand: Emily Culp.

Emily Culp, the new CMO of Keds, is bringing two powerful elements Passion and Listening to bear on a remarkably cool 100-year old brand. Her passion for Keds is contagious and her expressed desire to listen and really understand the Keds customer is more than just lip service — she used a recent promotional event to personally interview dozens and dozens of Keds fans from multiple generations. It is this kind of hands on ears open research that helped Emily get off to a running start at Keds and makes it easy to understand why The CMO Club recognized her as a Rising Star. But don’t take my word for it, read on.

Drew: As the new CMO just coming into Keds, what were your goals for your first 100 days?

That’s a great question. I just hit the 90-day mark and some of the most important things that I have sought to accomplish are making sure that I’m clear on the strategy of the brand from a growth perspective, a heritage perspective and a product perspective and just really emerging myself those aspects of the business. Additionally, I am enjoying building relationships with my team and peers in product development, international, sales and strategy. To me, teamwork is one of the most critical aspects of business.

Drew: So, as I was looking at the Keds site I had the realization that, “oh my god, Keds are cool again!” When did that happen?

I would argue it’s been cool since it was founded in 1916.

Drew: Oh, stop! Come on, it was cool and then it wasn’t cool.

You know what? That’s the beauty of heritage products. They ebb and flow but there is a DNA of the product that is substantial and that’s the reason it’s been around for 100 years. Next year is our centennial and it’s because it’s a great product. To answer your question, when did it become cool again? I can’t really pinpoint that. But when you look at Yoko Ono to Lauren Hutton, to Audrey Hepburn, to Marilyn Monroe and then “Baby” in Dirty Dancing and then Taylor Swift, it’s a pretty amazing mix of women wearing our product. And that’s where you can see the cool factor thing cycle. I think it also is important to note that we created sneakers just for women to empower them to be free to pursue what they wanted to and this gives us an unbelievable credibility with women. So fashion cycles may change but there is something just beautiful about the simplicity of our product and you know, we always update it with different materials or collaborations such as Liberty of London and Kate Spade but we are true to our DNA.

Drew: You know it’s funny; it does very much look like a shoe I might have seen on kids in Newport Beach in 60s and 70s.

Exactly but it’s back. That’s what I love about fashion. For example, jumpsuits are back. Who knows when that happened, but it did happen.

Drew: It seems like you’ve done a lot to infuse fresh energy like the Keds/Kate Spade partnership or Taylor Swift designing her own pair of Keds.

That’s exactly it, it’s a multipronged approach and there is a lot more we’re going to do in this coming year around our centennial. We are excited to announce more specific details around it later this year.

Drew: So I’m curious, is there anything in particular that you’ve done at Keds in the time that you’ve been there that you would like to talk about?

I started at a great time which was right around when we were focusing on a women’s equality day initiative where we really were amplifying our Ladies First since 1916 platform. On August 26^th, in NYC we did a popup activation in Washington Square Park where we gave out one thousand nine hundred and sixteen pairs of shoes to women so they could conquer the world. We also asked them to pause & think about “today is women’s equality day. What about tomorrow?” and we got some amazing responses. We were all so moved that we captured the responses and created a short video to inspire women everywhere.

It was a terrific way to start at Keds, because it meant that I could personally speak to the first 100 consumers in line and it was multi-generational and there were people who were telling me nicknames that they would call Keds since they were kids etc. So it was phenomenal experience and what was even more fascinating to me was the idea around what does women’s equality mean and what does it mean to each individual. In order to capture this content and really honor the innovation that women are driving forward we made sure that we had content on Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook and Periscope. This approach meant that the event was not only a big success with people physically present in NYC but also around the US as they could participate in many of the elements remotely.

Drew: And how do you measure the success of a program like that?

It comes down to social engagement, impact on sales in retail doors, dotcom traffic and of course, PR exposure.

Drew: Is there a person in your career that’s been particularly helpful or acted as a mentor?

I’ve been so fortunate. I have a number of mentors and I think the question comes down to “what is a mentor” and I think a lot of people have this vision of someone who you’ve worked with for 20 years, who you see every week for an hour. Personally, I reach out to a wide range of friends and colleagues from all different walks of life whether it’s past bosses, to good friends in private equity, to people who are in theatre. I reach out to each of them for different types of advice. So I’ve been very lucky in that regards and I think having such diverse counsel has served me very well and frankly I try and pay it forward. I actively mentor people in Columbia where I went to business school and WIR (women in retail) etc.

Drew: Looking ahead for 2016 (besides your 100^th anniversary) what’s the biggest challenge that you’d like to overcome?

As a marketer, for me one of the biggest challenges I always face is– how do you get into a woman’s psyche and become part of their DNA? So to me it’s all about driving brand heat and doing that in a meaningful and sustainable way. So that’s one of the largest challenges I would say I have but I’m beyond ecstatic about having that as a challenge and frankly, I’m honored to work on a brand that’s been around for a 100 years. When you actually look at the history of the shoe, it’s spectacular. Maybe it’s because I’m a mom–I have a daughter and a son but it’s the idea that these shoes were actually created to free women and empower them. That idea is very timely. So it’s how do we make sure that people understand what the brand stands for and also making sure that they think we’re a cool brand and want wear us.